Preaching results of dad few years ago. PART 3

Preaching results of dad few years ago. PART 3

Dad has been preaching more the 11 years, the photos below were taken few years ago. They were the results of preaching of dad and his companions.

a.
1 was bapized


b.
3 were baptized


c.
5 were baptized at the middle of the night


d.
10 were baptized


e.
13 were added in the church by baptism


f.
in this preaching 23 rebels were baptized


g.
56 were added in the true church by baptism


h.
Dad was the interpreter of brother Jim Mcdonald


i.
Preaching trip of brother Jim Mcdonald in Sarangani Province Gym.


j.
in this preaching 23 rebels were baptized



I am so glad to show you these photos as taken few back years ago. There are a lots of photos that are in our house, hope to put it here next time. To those who would like to contact dad, you may contact him in his e-mail add samtumandan031756@yahoo.com or in my e-mail add, marktumandan@yahoo.com.

Thanks,
Mike

Preaching results of dad few years ago. PART 2

The following photos were taken during the preaching of my dad Siamen Tumandan (samtumandan031756@yahoo.com) back few years ago.

a.
On the way going to Margus, Glan Sar. Province more than 100 miles from home. Dad was the one who ride in the big motorcycle.



b.
8 souls were added in the church.



c.
Six were added in the church by baptism.


d.
Six were added again in the church by baptism.


e.
13 were baptized.


f.
2 were baptized.


g.
10 were baptized.



h.
10 were baptized again in another area here in Sarangani Province.


I am so glad to show you these photos as taken few back years ago. There are a lots of photos that are in our house, hope to put it here next time.

Thanks,
Mike

Below is my exchange message with Liberal church of Christ member named Sara Li.

Below is my exchange message with Liberal church of Christ member named Sara Li.

----- ------------------- ---------
Sara Li July 29 at 10:27pm Report

hi mike ive reda your comentray concerning my status ,what ive wrote it was a prayer ,concerning the song it is a song of worship ,in fact the chruch iam member of use the instruments and i love singinig to LORD IVE ALREADY DISCUSED WITH SOME BROTHERS OF THE CHRUCH OF CHRIST CONCERNING THE USE OF INSTRUMENT and if you want to discusse
----My reply below---

Mhike Ampan Tumandan July 30 at 9:31pm
Music in Worship to God

The New Testament authorizes non-instrumental vocal music in the worship of our Lord. We are commanded to do so (Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16-17; Heb. 2:12; Jas. 5:13). Examples of singing without the instrument are given (Matt. 26:30; Acts 16:25; 1 Cor. 14:15).
It is unscriptural to accompany songs of praise to God in worship with whistling, humming, imitating and vocalizing sounds of mechanical instruments or clapping. These unauthorized acts do not “speak, teach, or admonish.” Humming and other sounds other than meaningful words are not true expressions of worship to God whether in the public assemblies or in
one’s private home, regardless of sincerity or privacy.



"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13:15)

Please answer me, when you use guitar in singing? Can you say that it is fruit of the lips of fruit of the strings and the lips, then if we use drums in singing, can we say that it is fruit of our lips or fruit of the sticks and our lips...?

Christ hath never been bound the Christian to use Musical Instrument, there is no proof that early Christians use them...

If there is, then let me know...

If what you believe is right, then I will use it too, but I assure you what you believe is not found in the BIBLE...

Can a man say that he is a Christian then he is doing what God hath never been bound?

Thanks,
Mike

----Her responds is below----

Sara Li July 31 at 12:28am Report
i dont want to discuss such issue on ^public if you want by message but pleas dont write such comentraypublicaly cause really iam fed up with such discussion i spend awhole year discusing such questions with other brothers from your church and it tired me really and i dont permit to anyone to say that iam not christian pay atention to make such jugement pleas

----My next reply is below---

Mhike Ampan Tumandan July 31 at 3:29pm
If you are truly believing that using instrumental music is scriptural, I am challenging you to discuss it in public, for us to know who is truly is BIBLICAL..

You have not answered my question...I asked you if can one say that he/she is a Christian then he/she is doing what God hath never been bound?

and in Heb. 13:15....if we use guitar, can we say it is fruit of our lips? if we use drums or piano, is it fruit of our lips?

I am sure it is fruit of the sticks, fruits of the strings...

Thanks,
Mike
marktumandan@yahoo.com

Preaching results of dad few years ago. PART 1

The following photos were taken during the preaching of my dad Siamen Tumandan (samtumandan031756@yahoo.com) back few years ago.




Preaching of my dad



Six were Baptized.



8 were Baptized.



In this preaching, 13 were added to the church by baptism.




DAD!


Dad has been preaching every Sunday over there in Poblacion Malapatan church of Christ Sarangani Province, Mindanao Philippines.

Thanks,
Mike

My Bible Sharing with the member of Christian Community Church who live in TEXAS,USA (11)

Friday, January 8, 2010 1:02:19 PM
Re: HOW ARE YOU THERE?
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: men mark tumandan

This would be my prayer for you as well my friend.

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul,
the other for your freedom. History teaches that when you
become indifferent and loose the will to fight someone who
has the will to fight will take over." Colonel Bull Simons

----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: Ron
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: HOW ARE YOU THERE?

Dear Ron,

Grace, Mercy and Peace be unto you

From God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord

Hi! I hope and pray that you will face a wonderful NEW YEAR. May all your plan will success this year, and wishing you a good health. I hope that time will come you will leave the church where you belong that is nowhere to be found in the BIBLE.

Thanks!


In Christian LOVE,

Mike


From: Ron
To: men mark tumandan
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:26:14
Subject: Fw: HOW ARE YOU THERE?

You belong to the "Church of Christ"; that's the bottom line here. A church with has it roots in the restoration movement. Your congregations are autonomous however your churches history goes into several different names like the Independent Christian Churches and the United Church of Christ. Your leadership founders worked under the name of the Second Great Awakening, the leadership founders being Thomas and Alexander Campbell, Walter Scott and Barton W Stone. Your church has Presbyterian roots however it broke away from that denomination later using names like Church of Christ, Christian Church and Disciples of Christ because the belief was these were more Biblical names for the church.

Again you have misrepresented yourself; stop writing me.

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com
----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: az.dude@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:31 AM
Subject: HOW ARE YOU THERE?

Dear Friend,

Greetings in Joy,

Hi, how are you there? Well, it seem that so long time that we have not communicate to each other. Anyway, for your last question about where church I belong.

I am proud to say that I am member of the true church of Christ promised by Jesus Christ to built in Matthew 16:18 and fulfilled in Acts 2, about 33 A.D

We are undenominational and have no central headquarters or president. The head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ himself (Ephesians 1:22-23).

Each congregation of the churches of Christ is autonomous, and it is the Word of God that unites us into One Faith (Ephesians 4:3-6). We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and his holy Apostles, and not the teachings of man. We are Christians only!


THANK YOU AND MAY YOU WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL AND BE ADDED TO THE TRUE CHURCH BUILT BY CHRIST AND NOT BY MAN


In Christian LOVE,

Mike

My Bible Sharing with the member of Christian Community Church who live in TEXAS,USA (10)

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:26:14 AM
Fw: HOW ARE YOU THERE?
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: men mark tumandan
You belong to the "Church of Christ"; that's the bottom line here. A church with has it roots in the restoration movement. Your congregations are autonomous however your churches history goes into several different names like the Independent Christian Churches and the United Church of Christ. Your leadership founders worked under the name of the Second Great Awakening, the leadership founders being Thomas and Alexander Campbell, Walter Scott and Barton W Stone. Your church has Presbyterian roots however it broke away from that denomination later using names like Church of Christ, Christian Church and Disciples of Christ because the belief was these were more Biblical names for the church.

Again you have misrepresented yourself; stop writing me.

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com
----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: az.dude@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:31 AM
Subject: HOW ARE YOU THERE?

Dear Friend,

Greetings in Joy,

Hi, how are you there? Well, it seem that so long time that we have not communicate to each other. Anyway, for your last question about where church I belong.

I am proud to say that I am member of the true church of Christ promised by Jesus Christ to built in Matthew 16:18 and fulfilled in Acts 2, about 33 A.D

We are undenominational and have no central headquarters or president. The head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ himself (Ephesians 1:22-23).

Each congregation of the churches of Christ is autonomous, and it is the Word of God that unites us into One Faith (Ephesians 4:3-6). We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and his holy Apostles, and not the teachings of man. We are Christians only!


THANK YOU AND MAY YOU WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL AND BE ADDED TO THE TRUE CHURCH BUILT BY CHRIST AND NOT BY MAN


In Christian LOVE,

Mike

My Bible Sharing with the member of Christian Community Church who live in TEXAS,USA (9)

Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:37:37 PM
Re: Part one of your thought error
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph

Dear Mike,

You're in denial my friend. The thief on the cross was the perfect example of the "grace" of our Lord Jesus yet this thief was not baptized (another example of His word) Jesus saved this thief by proclaiming that the thief would join him in paradise this day. Now maybe you can ignore this to suit your argument however your argument doesn't stand the test of scripture through this example. God/Jesus/ the Bible does not contradict Himself as God/Christ is perfect. There's no question as to "why" Christ chose to save this dying man. He had the power to do so and he did; it's as simple as that. Your decision to ignore the fact that this thief was not baptized as one of many examples of being saved by "grace" (His grace) alone astounds me.

You mention Hebrews 9:16-17 concerning "wills" which are legal documents of one's desires for their properties and wishes after they have died being used as an example of Moses and the commandments however you neglect verse 15 which reads: "For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Before I go further I want to note you still have not answered my question "What church do you represent which doctrine of theology are you professing?" You evaded the question. Your church sir should have a zip code an address and in this day in age a website. You're not that old so 33 A.D. doesn't cut it. I will say this, this will be my last e-mail to you without an answer. You know my beliefs based on the webpage yet you remain hidden behind a yahoo account. You will not change my beliefs as they are founded in Christ no matter what you may wish to believe. I find it is you who has chosen to ignore or gloss over scripture to fit your beliefs. Twisting and turning scripture to fit wasn't what Christ intended yet you repeatedly do just that. Christ saved the thief by "grace alone". We are like the thief in that we are born into sin and it's the "grace" through Christ Jesus we are saved.

For those that need a definition of the word "grace" it's: mercy; clemency; a pardon: an act of grace; favor or good will. An undeserved gift or pardon. In the case of Christianity the gift of eternal life.

I see you fit in an number of scriptures that have nothing to do with this topic so I'll go to scripture that does speak to "grace".
Acts 15:11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Note there is no mention of baptism here. To note further I believe baptism is important however it's NOT what saves anyone.
John 3:16 says: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Note: no mention of "and is baptized".
I guess I should ask if you understand there's different meanings to baptized in the Bible, "baptized in the spirit" "baptized through the blood of Christ" etc. it's not just dunking in water.

There is no verse in the Bible that said “Baptism by water is the outward acknowledgement, a proclamation of faith to those that are present”. Where did you get that statement my friend? If you see it in the Bible, please give me the verse. This is my opinion based on Biblical reading. No one knows the heart of anyone being baptized therefore its an outward proclamation of faith to anyone present. Transformation comes from the heart, true repentance of sin with the acknowledgement that Jesus is Lord and Savior/God's only son. If baptism alone were the only other thing to be done then Rev wouldn't speak of the churches He was displeased with. If baptism were the second requirement that would indeed save you then Jesus wouldn't say "Go away from me you evil doers" to those that did all those things in Jesus' name now would He? The inward transformation is what's needed here and as Christ searches the hearts He will choose who will be saved and who will not be saved. His grace and grace alone saves us. It's his choice to favor us or not. Our behaviors will say whether or not we truly believe Him to be Lord and Savior.

Gotta go; church time,

Ron

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

----- Original Message -----
From: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph
To: Ron
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: Part one of your thought error

Dear Ron,



Grace, Mercy and Peace be unto you

From God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord



Thank you so much for the time that you spend for our Bible sharing my friend. My friend, there is no verse in the Bible that said “we are saved by grace alone”.



Regarding the theft on the cross, yeah, he was saved that moment for Christ himself said that he (the theft) was saved. We can’t question Christ why was it that the theft was saved.



But, you want us to be like the theft. Even that there is no baptism we are saved? That is not right my friend. The testament is of force after (not before) men are dead,” and that “it is no strength while the testator is liveth.”(Heb. 9:16; 17). Before his death men were to be obedient to the Law of Moses, (Mat.23:2-5). His testament and its forgiveness were yet to begin in Jerusalem, (Luke 24:47; cf.Isa:2:3). The theft on the cross “did not believe that God hath raised Christ (past tense) from the dead”, (Rom. 10:9). Now, however, we must “believe that God hath raised Christ from the dead” in order to be saved.



There is no verse in the Bible that said “Baptism by water is the outward acknowledgement, a proclamation of faith to those that are present”. Where did you get that statement my friend? If you see it in the Bible, please give me the verse.



Did Apostle Paul baptized for a proclamation of faith to those that were present in his time? No, But, Ananias told him, to “repent and baptized and wash away his sins…”



Did the jailer in Philippi also baptized for a proclamation of faith to those that were present in his time? No, but when he heard the word of the Lord he was baptized in order that his sins must be wash away.



Did the Ethiopian baptized in Acts 8:36-38 for a proclamation of faith to those that were present in his time? No, but he was baptized because Christ himself said it in Mark 16:16.



Did the Corinthians were baptized for a proclamation of faith to those that were present in their time? No, but they knew that when one is preaching Christ he is also preaching baptism.



If you are not preaching baptism that it is step for salvation, then you are not truly preaching Christ.



My friend, in the time of Cornelius, when the Holy Spirit fell on him, he was not saved in that situation. But, when he was baptized he was saved.



Holy Spirit baptism never came upon anyone again. This promise had fulfilled its purpose by initiating the Gospel Age and by confirming that both Jews and Gentiles are included in this scope of this new AGE. Jews and Gentiles may receive the forgiveness of sins by faith in Christ when they repent of their sins and submit to him in water baptism. This good news must be proclaimed to “all the world” and “to every creature”. “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved…” (Mark 16:16) (Note Christ never said that He that believeth whether he is baptized or not shall be saved)

In this way, Christ extends the offer of salvation to all men until the end of the time; “And, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world” (Matt. 28:18-20).



Furthermore, Holy Spirit baptism was miraculous event, not a pardon of salvation and a promise while water baptism is act of obedient faith, pardon of salvation and commanded.



My friend, you are always asking what Church I member of. I am member of the true church built by Jesus Christ on 33 A.D where Christ himself promised it in Matt. 16:18 and it fulfilled in Acts 2.



I will give you more information about the true church built by Jesus Christ when I write you again.



THANK YOU AND GOD WILL BLESS YOU WHEN YOU ARE BAPTIZED AND WILL BE ADDED TO HIS CHURCH. “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” (Act 2:47).





In Christian LOVE,

Mike


--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Ron wrote:


From: Ron
Subject: Re: Part one of your thought error
To: "men mark tumandan"
Date: Sunday, 5 April, 2009, 1:07 AM


You're missing the point here. We are saved by "grace" and "grace" alone. The Bible will not contradict itself. I agree that baptism is important however it does not make one "saved". To your point its a must for salvation; it's not.

Lk 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
Lk 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’"
Lk 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Notice here Jesus tells the criminal that he will be with Him in paradise. The criminal was saved by the "grace" of Jesus only. Jesus did not say "too bad you can't get baptized as I've just saved you by "grace" and baptism is the next step towards your salvation.

I've been saved for many years and have had my ups and downs through life. I realized one day that I'd not been baptized so I contacted my former youth pastor who is now a minister in Ohio. My mom is a Baptist and my dad has been in the Christian and Missionary Alliance for many years. Both churches believe in total submersion baptism however Don who was my youth pastor many years ago "sprinkles" Holy water as the Methodist ceremony. I went back to Ohio where I asked Don to baptize me in the Wade and Gatten river. You see mom's idea of "living water" is rivers, lakes, and the ocean. I grew up swinging from a rope placed high on a tree at that river. To me it only seemed right to be Baptized where I'd spent my youth during summers swinging from that tree rope. The place was of my choosing, the honor for the method of my baptism was to my mom and dad. The minister was historical to my past as he got to see the fruit of his ministry to me as a former youth in his care. Had I died before the baptism I would have still been in the book of Life as Jesus saves by His grace and His grace alone. This verse you quoted,


According to Galatians 3:27, when "one baptized into Christ". Therefore, men are called "into grace of Christ" when they are "baptized into Christ" goes on to say, "for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." It's not talking about the literal sense of the word here it's the complete transformation of Christ in their lives. Baptized by the spirit would be a better reference here my friend. Mk 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." The key here is "Baptized INTO Christ". Baptism by water is the outward acknowledgement, a proclamation of faith to those that are present. If this were the key to salvation we wouldn't have so many "Christians in name only" in this world.

What needs to be understood is that one who professes Christ as Lord and Savior will transform through the belief, the hunger and desire to please Him, this washing and becoming anew through the Holy Spirit. Ceremonial cleansing does not do this no more than saying what's referred to as the "sinner's prayer" saves a person. Mt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Mt 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ There's no doubt in my mind that the people Jesus is talking about got baptized and did all the right ceremonies however their hearts were never transformed, cleansed so to speak by the Holy Spirit for a variety of reasons. They were not saved by "grace"; the grace that only comes through Jesus Christ truly being Lord and Savior in their lives. Nothing these people "did" saved them in these verses.

Back to the criminal on the cross next to Jesus; he says, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He recognized Jesus as pure, as king of a kingdom and no doubt he felt unworthy to be on a cross next to Him. Jesus knew his heart and through His "grace" saved him.

I've got to go for now,

Take care and God bless you and yours,

Ron

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: Ron
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: Part one of your thought error

Dear Ron,



Greetings in Peace



I am so thankful for your respond and I am glad to read for I know that you only want to obey what is in the Bible, which is the word of God. Now my friend for your objection:



Paul was astonished because the Galatians were quickly leaving the gospel which preached by the Apostle Paul. Are the Gospel you preach and the gospel preached by Apostle Paul the same? Paul preach that even he or the angel preach any gospel other than the gospel he preached “be accursed” (Gal. 1:8, 9)



My friend, how can a man be in Christ? How does one get into Christ? According to Galatians 3:27, when "one baptized into Christ".

Therefore, men are called "into grace of Christ" when they are "baptized into Christ"



You stated that Even though one will not be baptized he is saved. Are you telling me that a man be saved even though he is not in Christ? The truth is this, if you only believe but not baptized you are not saved.



Remember, my friend, rulers of the synagogue were lost believers.



In Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." There is no need to say “He who does not believe and does not baptized shall be damned" because "He who does not believe is "condemned already". Obviously, if he does not believe, he will not be baptized.



Another example:



1. "He that enrolls and attend class shall be educated, but he that does not

Enroll shall be uneducated" There is no need to say "He who does not

Enroll and does not attend class shall be uneducated" because, he who

Does not enrolls shall be uneducated, obviously, if he does not enroll, he

Will not attend class.



My friend, that is so simple, I will give you more illustration.



Suppose I will read the verse 16 of chapter 16 of Mark, “He that believes is saved..." Am I right? or suppose I will read it, " He that believes whether he is baptized is saved" Am I right again? Certainly not. If it is wrong to read it like that, what make you preach like that? For Mark 16:16 said "He that believes and is baptized will be saved..."



My friend, there were lots of people who believe in Christ yet they were not saved, like the rulers of the synagogue. (John 12:42-43) even the DEVIL SPIRITS in the time of Jesus were believe, that Jesus is the son of God.

In Matt. 8:29 “And, behold, they cried out, saying, what have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? Art thou come hither to torment us before the time?” Mark 1:23-24 “And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” In chapter 3 of Mark verse 11 “And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.” And finally in Luke 4:41 “And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Even the DEVIL SPIRITS believe, my friend, that Jesus is God, Holy ONE of God.

Yes, believing in Jesus Christ is very important, except one believes in Jesus he has no HOPE of salvation (John 8:24). Without faith it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6). Salvation is not by “faith alone” “believing alone” or by “grace alone”.

Saving faith is an obedient faith. Works of human merit can not save us, but when we do by faith what God says, it is the “work of God” (John 6:29). We must walk in the works God has ordained. (Eph. 2:10).

In Acts 2:41 those who gladly receive the word of God were baptized. When one is “Baptized into Christ”, he is baptized, for the remission of sins (Rom 6:4).. People are “baptized into Christ” they are “baptized into one body, the church” (1 Cor.12:13)

My friend, in Acts 2:37-38 when certain men believe that Jesus was “both Lord and Christ” they asked the apostles “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” They were told to “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ….”

What is the purpose of repenting and baptized? Let the apostles tell us… “For the remission of sins” Therefore, if one is baptized, the purpose of it is “for the remission of sins”. This was the answer of the Spirit of God.

Before the Apostle Paul was saved he asked “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do” The Lord told him to “go into the city, and it shall be told thee thou must do.” When God sent Ananias unto Paul, he “told” him, “And now why tarries thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins…”

Paul had already believe on the Lord, was indicated by his obeying Jesus command to go into the city; so, he did not need to be told to BELIEVE. Paul had repented of his sins, for he prayed three days and terminated his murderous mission. (Acts: 9:1, 2, 9, 11). Thus, he did not need to be told to “repent”.. Having believed on the Lord and been repented, he was “told” to “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins…”

If what you preach is true, that man is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though his sins are not yet forgiven. Man may saved even he is not repented and confess that Christ is son of God.

But, that is not true.

Before the jailer in Philippi was saved he asked “What must I do to be saved?” he was told to, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” (Acts 16:31-34). But, how faith is produced? Faith comes as a result of HEARING the word of God (Rom. 10:14; 14, 17). “And they spake unto him the word of God.” Since Paul and Silas told the man to believe, it was necessary for them to preach the word so that he might do so. After hearing the word of the Lord, the jailer “rejoiced, believing in God.”

Though it is not specifically stated, it is evident that he repented, too. First, as we have seen, one can’t be saved w/o repentance (Luke24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30; 2 Pet. 3:9). Second the fact that the jailer washed the wounds of Paul and Silas indicates that he had repented. Third, the jailer repented because he “was baptized”. One can’t baptized unless he first repent (Acts 2:38).

What led the jailer to be baptized? All he had heard was “the word of the Lord” Yet, the text says he “was baptized”. Where did he learn about baptism?

Jesus said, “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to all creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

In Samaria, Philip “preached Christ unto them” (Acts 8:5). It is not said that he preached “faith and baptism” but the result of his preaching of “Christ unto them” was that they believed were baptized (Acts 8:12). Evidently, to preach Christ includes baptism.

In Acts 8, when Philip “preached……Jesus” to an Ethiopian, the man asked, “What doth hinder me to be baptized?” In preaching Christ, Philip had preached what Jesus had said about baptism. How else the Ethiopian have known to ask about baptism?

To the Corinthians, Paul had preach nothing except the cross, “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” (1 Cor. 1:18; 2:2; 4:15). “And many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized” (Acts 18:8). And again, we see that to preach the GOSPEL of Christ is to preach FAITH AND BAPTISM.

Scriptural Subject of baptism is the penitent believers who confess Christ, therefore no infants were baptized in N.T days, only, “men and women” (Acts 8:12). Scriptural mode is immersion. However, a burial is both referred to and described. (Rom. 6:4-5; Acts 8:18-39). Scriptural purpose is “for the remission of sins”. The blood of Christ was shed for the remission of sins (Matt. 26:28).

In baptism we are “baptized into his death”, “baptized into Jesus Christ and thereby put on Christ” and we “put off the body of sins of the flesh in baptism” (Rom. 6:3-4; Col. 2:11-13; Gal.3:27).

The scriptural authority is in the “NAME of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matt. 28:19). There are many baptisms taught by men that differ from this scriptural pattern but they can’t be the “one baptism” of the Bible (Eph. 4:5). That which is in the “name of the Lord” (Acts 10:48) must be by His authority, thus obedience to His commandment.

My friend please answers these questions:

1. If one is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though his sins are not yet forgiven. (see Acts 22:16; 1 Pet. 3:21)

2. If one is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though he is not put on Christ. (see Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 12:13)

3. If one is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though he is not being born again. (see John 3:5; Rom. 6:4)

My friend, through BAPTISM, one is put into DEATH of Christ, hence into His blood (Rom. 6:3); one is buried with Christ (Rom. 6:4).

Through baptism we are raised together with Christ (Col. 2:12).

Inasmuch as Christian baptism is “for the remission of sins” or “to wash away sins” and to get “into Christ” or to “put into Christ” and your church where you member of don’t administer Christian baptism, as has just been pointed out, then it follows who obeyed the Christian Community church plan of Salvation have missed the Lord, plan of salvation, and they are therefore not members of the N.T church, the body of Christ, the church of Christ and have not been their sins remitted and are not saved.

My heart’s desire and prayer to God for you and members of the church you belong that you will be saved. It is my sincere prayer that you may open your eyes to the truth and leave the Christian community church which is nowhere found in the Bible, and turn to the Lord’s church. I shall be very happy to hear from you as often as you can write.

In Christian LOVE,

Men Mark Tumandan


--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Ron wrote:


From: Ron
Subject: Part one of your thought error
To: "men mark tumandan"
Date: Saturday, 28 March, 2009, 3:57 AM


Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called m you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel n — Note the word grace does not include manditory baptism in the sentence; in other words it doesn't say "you by the grace and baptism of Christ".
Gal 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion o and are trying to pervert p the gospel of Christ.
Mk 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Note this does NOT say whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned. It is your belief that Jesus is the only true savior that saves you not the act of baptism. You're saved even if you're not baptize although it's noted that it's something one should do as a public proclamation of faith.
Ro 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized b into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? This refers to the baptism through the word into Christ Jesus. The belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior through the word saves us.
Ro 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death c in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead d through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. e
6:1-8:39 In 3:21-5:21 Paul explains how God has provided for our redemption and justification. He next explains the doctrine of sanctification—the process by which believers grow to maturity in Christ. He treats this subject in three parts: (1) freedom from sin’s tyranny (ch. 6), (2) freedom from the law’s condemnation (ch. 7) and (3) life in the power of the Holy Spirit (ch. 8).
6:1 Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? This question arose out of what Paul had just said in 5:20: "Where sin increased, grace increased all the more."
6:2 died to sin. The reference is to an event in the past and is explained in v. 3.
6:3–4 The when and how of the Christian’s death to sin. In NT times baptism so closely followed conversion that the two were considered part of one event (see Ac 2:38 and note). So although baptism is not a means by which we enter into a vital faith relationship with Jesus Christ, it is closely associated with faith. Baptism depicts graphically what happens as a result of the Christian’s union with Christ, which comes with faith—through faith we are united with Christ, just as through our natural birth we are united with Adam. As we fell into sin and became subject to death in father Adam, so we now have died and been raised again with Christ—which baptism symbolizes.
6:3 know. Three key words in this chapter are "know" (here and in vv. 6, 9), "offer" (vv. 11, 13, 16, 19) and "obey" (vv. 12, 16–17).
6:4 buried with him through baptism into death. Amplified in vv. 5–7. through the glory of the Father. By the power of God. God’s glory is his divine excellence, his perfection. Any one of his attributes is a manifestation of his excellence. Thus his power is a manifestation of his glory, as is his righteousness (see 3:23 and note). Glory and power are often closely related in the Bible (see Ps 145:11; Col 1:11; 1Pe 4:11; Rev 1:6; 4:11; 5:12–13; 7:12; 19:1). live a new life. Amplified in vv. 8–10.
6:6 our old self. Our unregenerate self; what we once were. body of sin. The self in its pre-Christian state, dominated by sin. This is a figurative expression in which the old self is personified. It is a "body" that can be put to death. For the believer, this old self has been "rendered powerless" (see NIV text note) so that it can no longer enslave us to sin—whatever lingering vitality it may yet exert in its death throes.
6:7 has died. The believer’s death with Christ to sin’s ruling power (see v. 3). freed from sin. Not sinless, but free from sin’s shackles and power.
6:8 As resurrection followed death in the experience of Christ, so the believer who dies with Christ is raised to a new quality of life here and now. Resurrection in the sense of a new birth is already a fact, and it increasingly exerts itself in the believer’s life.
6:10 he died to sin once for all. In his death Christ (for the sake of sinners) submitted to the "reign" of sin (5:21); but his death broke the judicial link between sin and death, and he passed forever from the sphere of sin’s "reign." Having been raised from the dead, he now lives forever to glorify God. to God. For the glory of God.
6:11 count yourselves. The first step toward victory over sin in the life of believers (for the succeeding steps see note on vv. 12–13). They are dead to sin and alive to God, and by faith they are to live in the light of this truth. in Christ. The first occurrence in Romans of this phrase, which is found often in Paul’s writings. True believers are "in Christ" because they have died with Christ and have been raised to new life with him. See note on Eph 1:1.
6:12–13 A call for Christians to become in practice what they already are in their status before God—dead to sin (see vv. 5–7) and alive to God (see vv. 8–10). The second step toward victory over sin is refusal to let sin reign in one’s life (v. 12). The third step is to offer oneself to God (v. 13).

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com


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Saturday, April 4, 2009 9:07:57 AM
Re: Part one of your thought error
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: men mark tumandan

You're missing the point here. We are saved by "grace" and "grace" alone. The Bible will not contradict itself. I agree that baptism is important however it does not make one "saved". To your point its a must for salvation; it's not.

Lk 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

Lk 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’"

Lk 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Notice here Jesus tells the criminal that he will be with Him in paradise. The criminal was saved by the "grace" of Jesus only. Jesus did not say "too bad you can't get baptized as I've just saved you by "grace" and baptism is the next step towards your salvation.

I've been saved for many years and have had my ups and downs through life. I realized one day that I'd not been baptized so I contacted my former youth pastor who is now a minister in Ohio. My mom is a Baptist and my dad has been in the Christian and Missionary Alliance for many years. Both churches believe in total submersion baptism however Don who was my youth pastor many years ago "sprinkles" Holy water as the Methodist ceremony. I went back to Ohio where I asked Don to baptize me in the Wade and Gatten river. You see mom's idea of "living water" is rivers, lakes, and the ocean. I grew up swinging from a rope placed high on a tree at that river. To me it only seemed right to be Baptized where I'd spent my youth during summers swinging from that tree rope. The place was of my choosing, the honor for the method of my baptism was to my mom and dad. The minister was historical to my past as he got to see the fruit of his ministry to me as a former youth in his care. Had I died before the baptism I would have still been in the book of Life as Jesus saves by His grace and His grace alone. This verse you quoted,


According to Galatians 3:27, when "one baptized into Christ". Therefore, men are called "into grace of Christ" when they are "baptized into Christ" goes on to say, "for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." It's not talking about the literal sense of the word here it's the complete transformation of Christ in their lives. Baptized by the spirit would be a better reference here my friend. Mk 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." The key here is "Baptized INTO Christ". Baptism by water is the outward acknowledgement, a proclamation of faith to those that are present. If this were the key to salvation we wouldn't have so many "Christians in name only" in this world.



What needs to be understood is that one who professes Christ as Lord and Savior will transform through the belief, the hunger and desire to please Him, this washing and becoming anew through the Holy Spirit. Ceremonial cleansing does not do this no more than saying what's referred to as the "sinner's prayer" saves a person. Mt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Mt 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ There's no doubt in my mind that the people Jesus is talking about got baptized and did all the right ceremonies however their hearts were never transformed, cleansed so to speak by the Holy Spirit for a variety of reasons. They were not saved by "grace"; the grace that only comes through Jesus Christ truly being Lord and Savior in their lives. Nothing these people "did" saved them in these verses.



Back to the criminal on the cross next to Jesus; he says, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He recognized Jesus as pure, as king of a kingdom and no doubt he felt unworthy to be on a cross next to Him. Jesus knew his heart and through His "grace" saved him.



I've got to go for now,



Take care and God bless you and yours,



Ron



“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: Ron
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: Part one of your thought error

Dear Ron,



Greetings in Peace



I am so thankful for your respond and I am glad to read for I know that you only want to obey what is in the Bible, which is the word of God. Now my friend for your objection:



Paul was astonished because the Galatians were quickly leaving the gospel which preached by the Apostle Paul. Are the Gospel you preach and the gospel preached by Apostle Paul the same? Paul preach that even he or the angel preach any gospel other than the gospel he preached “be accursed” (Gal. 1:8, 9)



My friend, how can a man be in Christ? How does one get into Christ? According to Galatians 3:27, when "one baptized into Christ".

Therefore, men are called "into grace of Christ" when they are "baptized into Christ"



You stated that Even though one will not be baptized he is saved. Are you telling me that a man be saved even though he is not in Christ? The truth is this, if you only believe but not baptized you are not saved.



Remember, my friend, rulers of the synagogue were lost believers.



In Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." There is no need to say “He who does not believe and does not baptized shall be damned" because "He who does not believe is "condemned already". Obviously, if he does not believe, he will not be baptized.



Another example:



1. "He that enrolls and attend class shall be educated, but he that does not

Enroll shall be uneducated" There is no need to say "He who does not

Enroll and does not attend class shall be uneducated" because, he who

Does not enrolls shall be uneducated, obviously, if he does not enroll, he

Will not attend class.



My friend, that is so simple, I will give you more illustration.



Suppose I will read the verse 16 of chapter 16 of Mark, “He that believes is saved..." Am I right? or suppose I will read it, " He that believes whether he is baptized is saved" Am I right again? Certainly not. If it is wrong to read it like that, what make you preach like that? For Mark 16:16 said "He that believes and is baptized will be saved..."



My friend, there were lots of people who believe in Christ yet they were not saved, like the rulers of the synagogue. (John 12:42-43) even the DEVIL SPIRITS in the time of Jesus were believe, that Jesus is the son of God.

In Matt. 8:29 “And, behold, they cried out, saying, what have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? Art thou come hither to torment us before the time?” Mark 1:23-24 “And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” In chapter 3 of Mark verse 11 “And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.” And finally in Luke 4:41 “And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Even the DEVIL SPIRITS believe, my friend, that Jesus is God, Holy ONE of God.

Yes, believing in Jesus Christ is very important, except one believes in Jesus he has no HOPE of salvation (John 8:24). Without faith it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6). Salvation is not by “faith alone” “believing alone” or by “grace alone”.

Saving faith is an obedient faith. Works of human merit can not save us, but when we do by faith what God says, it is the “work of God” (John 6:29). We must walk in the works God has ordained. (Eph. 2:10).

In Acts 2:41 those who gladly receive the word of God were baptized. When one is “Baptized into Christ”, he is baptized, for the remission of sins (Rom 6:4).. People are “baptized into Christ” they are “baptized into one body, the church” (1 Cor.12:13)

My friend, in Acts 2:37-38 when certain men believe that Jesus was “both Lord and Christ” they asked the apostles “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” They were told to “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ….”

What is the purpose of repenting and baptized? Let the apostles tell us… “For the remission of sins” Therefore, if one is baptized, the purpose of it is “for the remission of sins”. This was the answer of the Spirit of God.

Before the Apostle Paul was saved he asked “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do” The Lord told him to “go into the city, and it shall be told thee thou must do.” When God sent Ananias unto Paul, he “told” him, “And now why tarries thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins…”

Paul had already believe on the Lord, was indicated by his obeying Jesus command to go into the city; so, he did not need to be told to BELIEVE. Paul had repented of his sins, for he prayed three days and terminated his murderous mission. (Acts: 9:1, 2, 9, 11). Thus, he did not need to be told to “repent”.. Having believed on the Lord and been repented, he was “told” to “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins…”

If what you preach is true, that man is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though his sins are not yet forgiven. Man may saved even he is not repented and confess that Christ is son of God.

But, that is not true.

Before the jailer in Philippi was saved he asked “What must I do to be saved?” he was told to, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” (Acts 16:31-34). But, how faith is produced? Faith comes as a result of HEARING the word of God (Rom. 10:14; 14, 17). “And they spake unto him the word of God.” Since Paul and Silas told the man to believe, it was necessary for them to preach the word so that he might do so. After hearing the word of the Lord, the jailer “rejoiced, believing in God.”

Though it is not specifically stated, it is evident that he repented, too. First, as we have seen, one can’t be saved w/o repentance (Luke24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30; 2 Pet. 3:9). Second the fact that the jailer washed the wounds of Paul and Silas indicates that he had repented. Third, the jailer repented because he “was baptized”. One can’t baptized unless he first repent (Acts 2:38).

What led the jailer to be baptized? All he had heard was “the word of the Lord” Yet, the text says he “was baptized”. Where did he learn about baptism?

Jesus said, “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to all creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

In Samaria, Philip “preached Christ unto them” (Acts 8:5). It is not said that he preached “faith and baptism” but the result of his preaching of “Christ unto them” was that they believed were baptized (Acts 8:12). Evidently, to preach Christ includes baptism.

In Acts 8, when Philip “preached……Jesus” to an Ethiopian, the man asked, “What doth hinder me to be baptized?” In preaching Christ, Philip had preached what Jesus had said about baptism. How else the Ethiopian have known to ask about baptism?

To the Corinthians, Paul had preach nothing except the cross, “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” (1 Cor. 1:18; 2:2; 4:15). “And many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized” (Acts 18:8). And again, we see that to preach the GOSPEL of Christ is to preach FAITH AND BAPTISM.

Scriptural Subject of baptism is the penitent believers who confess Christ, therefore no infants were baptized in N.T days, only, “men and women” (Acts 8:12). Scriptural mode is immersion. However, a burial is both referred to and described. (Rom. 6:4-5; Acts 8:18-39). Scriptural purpose is “for the remission of sins”. The blood of Christ was shed for the remission of sins (Matt. 26:28).

In baptism we are “baptized into his death”, “baptized into Jesus Christ and thereby put on Christ” and we “put off the body of sins of the flesh in baptism” (Rom. 6:3-4; Col. 2:11-13; Gal.3:27).

The scriptural authority is in the “NAME of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matt. 28:19). There are many baptisms taught by men that differ from this scriptural pattern but they can’t be the “one baptism” of the Bible (Eph. 4:5). That which is in the “name of the Lord” (Acts 10:48) must be by His authority, thus obedience to His commandment.

My friend please answers these questions:

1. If one is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though his sins are not yet forgiven. (see Acts 22:16; 1 Pet. 3:21)

2. If one is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though he is not put on Christ. (see Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 12:13)

3. If one is saved, even though he is not baptized, he is saved even though he is not being born again. (see John 3:5; Rom. 6:4)

My friend, through BAPTISM, one is put into DEATH of Christ, hence into His blood (Rom. 6:3); one is buried with Christ (Rom. 6:4).

Through baptism we are raised together with Christ (Col. 2:12).



Inasmuch as Christian baptism is “for the remission of sins” or “to wash away sins” and to get “into Christ” or to “put into Christ” and your church where you member of don’t administer Christian baptism, as has just been pointed out, then it follows who obeyed the Christian Community church plan of Salvation have missed the Lord, plan of salvation, and they are therefore not members of the N.T church, the body of Christ, the church of Christ and have not been their sins remitted and are not saved.

My heart’s desire and prayer to God for you and members of the church you belong that you will be saved. It is my sincere prayer that you may open your eyes to the truth and leave the Christian community church which is nowhere found in the Bible, and turn to the Lord’s church. I shall be very happy to hear from you as often as you can write.



In Christian LOVE,

Men Mark Tumandan


--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Ron wrote:


From: Ron
Subject: Part one of your thought error
To: "men mark tumandan"
Date: Saturday, 28 March, 2009, 3:57 AM


Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called m you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel n — Note the word grace does not include manditory baptism in the sentence; in other words it doesn't say "you by the grace and baptism of Christ".
Gal 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion o and are trying to pervert p the gospel of Christ.
Mk 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Note this does NOT say whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned. It is your belief that Jesus is the only true savior that saves you not the act of baptism. You're saved even if you're not baptize although it's noted that it's something one should do as a public proclamation of faith.
Ro 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized b into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? This refers to the baptism through the word into Christ Jesus. The belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior through the word saves us.
Ro 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death c in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead d through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. e
6:1-8:39 In 3:21-5:21 Paul explains how God has provided for our redemption and justification. He next explains the doctrine of sanctification—the process by which believers grow to maturity in Christ. He treats this subject in three parts: (1) freedom from sin’s tyranny (ch. 6), (2) freedom from the law’s condemnation (ch. 7) and (3) life in the power of the Holy Spirit (ch. 8).
6:1 Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? This question arose out of what Paul had just said in 5:20: "Where sin increased, grace increased all the more."
6:2 died to sin. The reference is to an event in the past and is explained in v. 3.
6:3–4 The when and how of the Christian’s death to sin. In NT times baptism so closely followed conversion that the two were considered part of one event (see Ac 2:38 and note). So although baptism is not a means by which we enter into a vital faith relationship with Jesus Christ, it is closely associated with faith. Baptism depicts graphically what happens as a result of the Christian’s union with Christ, which comes with faith—through faith we are united with Christ, just as through our natural birth we are united with Adam. As we fell into sin and became subject to death in father Adam, so we now have died and been raised again with Christ—which baptism symbolizes.
6:3 know. Three key words in this chapter are "know" (here and in vv. 6, 9), "offer" (vv. 11, 13, 16, 19) and "obey" (vv. 12, 16–17).
6:4 buried with him through baptism into death. Amplified in vv. 5–7. through the glory of the Father. By the power of God. God’s glory is his divine excellence, his perfection. Any one of his attributes is a manifestation of his excellence. Thus his power is a manifestation of his glory, as is his righteousness (see 3:23 and note). Glory and power are often closely related in the Bible (see Ps 145:11; Col 1:11; 1Pe 4:11; Rev 1:6; 4:11; 5:12–13; 7:12; 19:1). live a new life. Amplified in vv. 8–10.
6:6 our old self. Our unregenerate self; what we once were. body of sin. The self in its pre-Christian state, dominated by sin. This is a figurative expression in which the old self is personified. It is a "body" that can be put to death. For the believer, this old self has been "rendered powerless" (see NIV text note) so that it can no longer enslave us to sin—whatever lingering vitality it may yet exert in its death throes.
6:7 has died. The believer’s death with Christ to sin’s ruling power (see v. 3). freed from sin. Not sinless, but free from sin’s shackles and power.
6:8 As resurrection followed death in the experience of Christ, so the believer who dies with Christ is raised to a new quality of life here and now. Resurrection in the sense of a new birth is already a fact, and it increasingly exerts itself in the believer’s life.
6:10 he died to sin once for all. In his death Christ (for the sake of sinners) submitted to the "reign" of sin (5:21); but his death broke the judicial link between sin and death, and he passed forever from the sphere of sin’s "reign." Having been raised from the dead, he now lives forever to glorify God. to God. For the glory of God.
6:11 count yourselves. The first step toward victory over sin in the life of believers (for the succeeding steps see note on vv. 12–13). They are dead to sin and alive to God, and by faith they are to live in the light of this truth. in Christ. The first occurrence in Romans of this phrase, which is found often in Paul’s writings. True believers are "in Christ" because they have died with Christ and have been raised to new life with him. See note on Eph 1:1.
6:12–13 A call for Christians to become in practice what they already are in their status before God—dead to sin (see vv. 5–7) and alive to God (see vv. 8–10). The second step toward victory over sin is refusal to let sin reign in one’s life (v. 12). The third step is to offer oneself to God (v. 13).

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

My Bible Sharing with the member of Christian Community Church who live in TEXAS,USA (7)

Saturday, April 4, 2009 6:40:39 AM
Re: I add a few points for further study.
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph

You still did not answer my question; you have not identified which church you represent.


“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

----- Original Message -----
From: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph
To: az.dude@cox.net
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:10 AM
Subject: I add a few points for further study.

Dear Ron,

I add a few points for further study.

1. God alone PROVIDES salvation (this is the point of all passages referring to God’s grace and mercy, and the death of Christ, etc.), but man is created in God’s image with free will to RECEIVE or to REJECT God’s offer of salvation. God’s grace saved the people in Galatia when they RECEIVED His salvation by obedient faith in submitting to baptism (Gal. 3:26-27). God’s grace saved the people in Ephesus when they RECEIVED His salvation by obedient faith in submitting to baptism (Acts 19:1-5; Eph. 2:8-9; Eph. 4:5; Eph. 5:26). This is the same teaching of the Great Commission for all men to receive salvation if they are willing (Mark 16:15-16). Those who teach salvation before and without water baptism are departing from the grace of Christ as revealed in the Great Commission.

2. To be saved by faith, it must be obedient faith in submitting to God’s conditions for man to receive salvation. Not so-called “faith only.” When Paul wrote of faith, his meaning is always obedient faith (Rom. 1:5; 6:3-4, 17; 10:16; 16:26). This is the same teaching of James: James 2:24.

3. When the New Testament says we cannot be saved by our own works, the context for this issue is the effort of Jews to return to the system of religion in the law of Moses. The law of Moses was designed to teach the Jews they sinned and needed a Savior. If the Jews return to that law, they abandon the perfect sacrifice of Christ already provided for the sins of the world. In that case, the only hope of salvation is to live a perfect life of perfect works and never sin. Since all men sin, that is why they cannot be saved by their own works (Rom. 4:1-8; Eph. 2:8-9). The issue in all of those verses is the false teaching that we should follow the law of Moses today. Notice the clear reference to the law of Moses including the 10 Commandments in Romans 7:7 and in Ephesians 2:14-15 (the law of Moses made a wall of separation between Jew & Gentile). The context of these passages is concerning the efforts of the Jews to seek salvation today through the law of Moses, not the issue of baptism. If they will be saved by the law of Moses today, they return to a system of religion having only animal sacrifices before the perfect sacrifice of Jesus was given on the cross. In that case, their only hope is to live a life of perfect works! We are not baptized to show God we lived a perfect life and never sinned, but we submit to be baptized to RECEIVE the free gift of salvation because our sins will be washed away (Acts 22:16). When we are baptized we accept that we did sin many times and that is why we must submit now to be baptized and RECEIVE the free gift of salvation (1 Pet. 3:21).

In Christian LOVE,

mike

My Bible Sharing with the member of Christian Community Church who live in TEXAS,USA (6)

Friday, March 27, 2009 11:57:45 AM
Part one of your thought error
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: men mark tumandan



Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called m you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel n — Note the word grace does not include manditory baptism in the sentence; in other words it doesn't say "you by the grace and baptism of Christ".

Gal 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion o and are trying to pervert p the gospel of Christ.

Mk 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Note this does NOT say whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned. It is your belief that Jesus is the only true savior that saves you not the act of baptism. You're saved even if you're not baptize although it's noted that it's something one should do as a public proclamation of faith.

Ro 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized b into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? This refers to the baptism through the word into Christ Jesus. The belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior through the word saves us.

Ro 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death c in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead d through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. e

6:1-8:39 In 3:21-5:21 Paul explains how God has provided for our redemption and justification. He next explains the doctrine of sanctification—the process by which believers grow to maturity in Christ. He treats this subject in three parts: (1) freedom from sin’s tyranny (ch. 6), (2) freedom from the law’s condemnation (ch. 7) and (3) life in the power of the Holy Spirit (ch. 8).

6:1 Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? This question arose out of what Paul had just said in 5:20: "Where sin increased, grace increased all the more."

6:2 died to sin. The reference is to an event in the past and is explained in v. 3.

6:3–4 The when and how of the Christian’s death to sin. In NT times baptism so closely followed conversion that the two were considered part of one event (see Ac 2:38 and note). So although baptism is not a means by which we enter into a vital faith relationship with Jesus Christ, it is closely associated with faith. Baptism depicts graphically what happens as a result of the Christian’s union with Christ, which comes with faith—through faith we are united with Christ, just as through our natural birth we are united with Adam. As we fell into sin and became subject to death in father Adam, so we now have died and been raised again with Christ—which baptism symbolizes.

6:3 know. Three key words in this chapter are "know" (here and in vv. 6, 9), "offer" (vv. 11, 13, 16, 19) and "obey" (vv. 12, 16–17).

6:4 buried with him through baptism into death. Amplified in vv. 5–7. through the glory of the Father. By the power of God. God’s glory is his divine excellence, his perfection. Any one of his attributes is a manifestation of his excellence. Thus his power is a manifestation of his glory, as is his righteousness (see 3:23 and note). Glory and power are often closely related in the Bible (see Ps 145:11; Col 1:11; 1Pe 4:11; Rev 1:6; 4:11; 5:12–13; 7:12; 19:1). live a new life. Amplified in vv. 8–10.

6:6 our old self. Our unregenerate self; what we once were. body of sin. The self in its pre-Christian state, dominated by sin. This is a figurative expression in which the old self is personified. It is a "body" that can be put to death. For the believer, this old self has been "rendered powerless" (see NIV text note) so that it can no longer enslave us to sin—whatever lingering vitality it may yet exert in its death throes.

6:7 has died. The believer’s death with Christ to sin’s ruling power (see v. 3). freed from sin. Not sinless, but free from sin’s shackles and power.

6:8 As resurrection followed death in the experience of Christ, so the believer who dies with Christ is raised to a new quality of life here and now. Resurrection in the sense of a new birth is already a fact, and it increasingly exerts itself in the believer’s life.

6:10 he died to sin once for all. In his death Christ (for the sake of sinners) submitted to the "reign" of sin (5:21); but his death broke the judicial link between sin and death, and he passed forever from the sphere of sin’s "reign." Having been raised from the dead, he now lives forever to glorify God. to God. For the glory of God.

6:11 count yourselves. The first step toward victory over sin in the life of believers (for the succeeding steps see note on vv. 12–13). They are dead to sin and alive to God, and by faith they are to live in the light of this truth. in Christ. The first occurrence in Romans of this phrase, which is found often in Paul’s writings. True believers are "in Christ" because they have died with Christ and have been raised to new life with him. See note on Eph 1:1.

6:12–13 A call for Christians to become in practice what they already are in their status before God—dead to sin (see vv. 5–7) and alive to God (see vv. 8–10). The second step toward victory over sin is refusal to let sin reign in one’s life (v. 12). The third step is to offer oneself to God (v. 13).


“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

My Bible Sharing with the member of Christian Community Church who live in TEXAS,USA (5)

Friday, March 27, 2009 5:01:48 AM
Re: Thank you for the answer for my questions.
...
From:
Ron
...
View Contact
To: men mark tumandan

My thought is that you do not want me to know which church organization you represent. Is it 7th day Adventists? If so you might want to read Dale Ratliff's books. He's a former pastor who preached here.

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: Ron
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: Thank you for the answer for my questions.

Dear Ron,



Greetings in Peace



Hi! I have been reading your letter several times and finally I will answer you in your objection to my last letter in you. Judging in the view of your letter I can say you did a good job.



In the first place, I have no hard feelings toward your church or to the peoples in your church, but I do believe you are not in the truth, and I do love you, and because I love you I want to tell you the truth. I don’t want that I am only the one or my family only know the truth, but I want to spread the gospel.



My friend, believe not the words that I write unto you because I said it, but believe it because you see it in the Bible. You said that you believe in the Bible, so you must believe the verses that I quote in the Bible. I am not seeking for my glory, but for the glory of God and His Dear Son.



I do not want to gain honor from any sort, but I seek the Honor of God. I am not hypocrite as you said, but I am only preaching Christ crucified. I am set to defense the GOSPEL.





As we read in John 7:17 stated that “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”



You can know if the word that I teach to you if it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. If you see the verse that I write then, believe it, but it is only from my own, then please I tell you, never believe the word that I tell unto you,

but I assure you, all the statements that I said unto you are come from the word of God.



Now, we go to your objection, you said in the second paragraph of your letter and in the last part that, we are all saved by grace.



“I will remind you that we are all saved by "grace" and grace alone”….. this statement is from your letter, my friend, in the sixth paragraph. May I remind you that we are not saved by grace alone, my friend. We are also saved by HOPE (Romans 8:24), and not only that, we are saved by, Baptism (1 Peter 3:21).Your reasoning that we are saved grace alone is false.



Mark 16:16 said that “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved....." one must believe in Christ first, he should believe that Christ was died in the cross, buried and after three days He was resurrected.



Christ had been “set forth” and “crucified among” them as Paul, preached the word of the cross unto them (Gal. 1:4; 3:1, 13) by faith, by gospel, the Galatians had been called “into the grace of Christ” (Gal 1:6-8). They were not justified by works of the law, but by faith, in the faith of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:6, 23) Sinners obey the truth, obey the gospel, and obey the faith. (Gal. 5:7)



“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”. (Gal.3:26-27)

Men are called, “into grace of Christ” when they are “baptized into Christ”.





You misuse the verse 17 of 2 Cor. 3:17, yes we have freedom, if the spirit of the Lord is in us, but we can not change the commandments of God. God never use us like a robot, we have freedom, to choose evil or obey God.

Christ is God’s lawgiver to His people (Heb. 1:1) and “All authority” (executive, legislative, judicial) was given to Him by the FATHER. (1 Cor. 15:27, Matt. 28:18)

Yes, we have freedom, but we can not change the WILL of Christ. (2 Cor. 4:13)



In ACTS 20:7 they are observing the Lord’s Supper, and we can see that we have scriptural authority to observe the Lord’s Supper “upon the first day of the week”.

Observe, my friend, when God said to the Israelites that “remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy” they understood that they will observe Sabbath every week for it often as it comes, hence when, the congregation in the Corinthian observe “upon the 1st day of the week” it means that every week they observe it, for every week there is 1st day.

But, enough of that, we are no longer and no authority to observe Sabbath day.





Malachi 3: 10 is no longer applicable, my friend for us now. We are now under the new covenant since the Christ was resurrected. The first covenant is the LAW OF MOSES (include tithing), but now we in the GOSPEL OF CHRIST (1 Cor. 16:2 Personal decision: “as God hath prospered” 2 Cor. 9:7 “As he purposeth in his heart”)



If you do what was in the Law of Moses then you are fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4)



IT IS MY PRAYER THAT YOU MAY KNOW THE TRUTH.



I am not telling this to offend you or to hurt you, but remember that I am telling this for you to know what the TRUTH is.



If you have also any objection, that you want to be clear for my letter please write me or tell me, as often as ye write unto me as often I will reply you. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY, THAT YOU GIVE TO ME TO SHARE THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Rom. 1:16).



THANK YOU AND GOOD DAY THERE





In Christian LOVE,

mike





P.S If you want that we will discuss our differences in a public discussion. We will meet in a fair arrangement. We will have a proposition, 1st "how Christian should give?” 2nd " We are saved by grace alone (as you affirm and I will deny it) 3rd "How to observe the LORD'S SUPPER" and when?”. If it is okay unto you, but if you don’t, it just alright.




--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Ron wrote:


From: Ron
Subject: Re: Thank you for the answer for my questions.
To: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph
Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 1:25 PM


Hi Mike,

I was going to answer this question until I received your e-mail this evening. It made a great lesson as I used it to demonstrate to my youth group how it's important to listen or read in this case. I can't say that you really read my response to you with the understanding it took to relay answers to your questions.. Your mind is made up that you are correct and are the "truth" to Biblical teachings. I'm here to say you are not the truth and this church does follow Biblical principles however we are not locked in to "this is the only way" as legalists like yourself think every church should behave in "lock step".

We are all saved by "Grace" and the methods we "choose" to worship are Biblical. You sir want to argue secondary issues that only seek to divide worshipers. How dare you say Malachi is not "applicable" and other scriptures which point to "examples" of situations are more important. Ben Franklin didn't like certain scriptures in the Bible and removed them; "his" Bible lost it's meaning because he (Ben Franklin) decided to pick and choose which scriptures he'd follow and which he would not. All scripture is "God inspired" and if it's in my Bible then it has something to offer me somewhere down the road.

I could tell you didn't really look at my tithing explanation as you went over the same things I did, and yes I do know what tithing means and I even explained how the New Testament took tithing to a new level of love from the heart through scripture. Everything I quoted was in scripture however you stated these were my words; no sir these were Biblical words. I always find it interesting where people choose to stop when they want to be correct in what they say so I'll go on in one scripture 2 Cor 3:17 continues by saying, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." Freedom includes tithing from the heart. It's true I could spend every hour talking about tithing like you have suggested I don't do enough of (not knowing me or my church-yet passing judgment).

I'd like to point out that Sunday is the first day of the week and the church tithes on that day. It was redundant for you to point out 1 Cor 16: 1-2 as if this church were not doing this; news flash, we are. 2 Cor 9:7 was redundant as well as I spent great length to attempt to process with you that God does not want us to give begrudgingly but from the heart and cheerfully. You glossed over it sir in an attempt to lecture me for your glory not God's.

You made less of God's church here because we choose to break bread once a month yet I don't think you've truly read the verse you quoted me. Acts 20 verse 7. It reads like this, "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight." Notice this was NOT written as a law. They came together to break bread, Paul spoke because he was LEAVING the next day. I does not say we broke bread the first day of the week every week. You want to argue a secondary issue that only divides people of faith; sir there is no wrong answer to this churches decision to have communion at the beginning of the month verses your decided method to break bread every Sunday. God bless you in this however I will not tolerate you inferring we are "less Christian" because you don't like how we worship. The bottom line is you "feel" you're right without substance other than opinion. Well sir the next Sunday I'm leaving the next day I'll do exactly what "Paul" did-keep in mind it wasn't what Jesus said or made "law"; it's simply your opinion which I respect however I won't criticize like you have chosen to do with me and the church family here.

Our principles are Biblically based however you don't see that because you're wrapped up in arguing about secondary issues. I will remind you that we are all saved by "grace" and grace alone. Nothing we "do" will make us any more or less deserving in God's eyes yet you seem to think otherwise for which I would suggest you truly read your Bible with your heart.

I don't understand your last comment however I take it you don't like the people of my church but you love me. It's hypocritical to suggest you can avoid liking/loving your brothers and sisters in Christ and choose to love only one in His family. Last I looked in the Bible you were not my judge, you are not an elder in this church and you are not God-your opinions do not represent truth in scripture. You have more to understand about God's grace and love than I care to go in to. When the rapture comes Christians who are chosen to go based on what God sees in their hearts will be grateful, loving, humble people who care about all people; because they didn't "pick and choose" who they would minister to they will have followed God's word, "love your neighbor"; a neighbor is anyone.

In answer to your statement like "I" don't know the truth; it's you sir that needs to learn the truth before your on hypocrisy condemns you.

I will pray for you however I won't entertain anymore statements like before; you are no better or no worse than any member of this church I live for. I serve the Lord God almighty, His son Jesus is my savior, I am saved by grace; His grace. The entire church believes this; we are founded and grounded in Christ; you, I'm not so sure of.

God bless,

Ron


“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

www.christiancommunitychurch.com

----- Original Message -----
From: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph
To: az.dude@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:06 AM
Subject: Thank you for the answer for my questions.

Dear Ron,

Greetings in Peace,

Thank you for the answer for my questions.

Can I ask you again?

*What must one do to be saved? according to your doctrine.

yours,
mike