Re: Thank you for the answer for my questions.
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From:
Ron
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To: men mark tumandan
My thought is that you do not want me to know which church organization you represent. Is it 7th day Adventists? If so you might want to read Dale Ratliff's books. He's a former pastor who preached here.
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35
www.christiancommunitychurch.com
----- Original Message -----
From: men mark tumandan
To: Ron
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: Thank you for the answer for my questions.
Dear Ron,
Greetings in Peace
Hi! I have been reading your letter several times and finally I will answer you in your objection to my last letter in you. Judging in the view of your letter I can say you did a good job.
In the first place, I have no hard feelings toward your church or to the peoples in your church, but I do believe you are not in the truth, and I do love you, and because I love you I want to tell you the truth. I don’t want that I am only the one or my family only know the truth, but I want to spread the gospel.
My friend, believe not the words that I write unto you because I said it, but believe it because you see it in the Bible. You said that you believe in the Bible, so you must believe the verses that I quote in the Bible. I am not seeking for my glory, but for the glory of God and His Dear Son.
I do not want to gain honor from any sort, but I seek the Honor of God. I am not hypocrite as you said, but I am only preaching Christ crucified. I am set to defense the GOSPEL.
As we read in John 7:17 stated that “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
You can know if the word that I teach to you if it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. If you see the verse that I write then, believe it, but it is only from my own, then please I tell you, never believe the word that I tell unto you,
but I assure you, all the statements that I said unto you are come from the word of God.
Now, we go to your objection, you said in the second paragraph of your letter and in the last part that, we are all saved by grace.
“I will remind you that we are all saved by "grace" and grace alone”….. this statement is from your letter, my friend, in the sixth paragraph. May I remind you that we are not saved by grace alone, my friend. We are also saved by HOPE (Romans 8:24), and not only that, we are saved by, Baptism (1 Peter 3:21).Your reasoning that we are saved grace alone is false.
Mark 16:16 said that “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved....." one must believe in Christ first, he should believe that Christ was died in the cross, buried and after three days He was resurrected.
Christ had been “set forth” and “crucified among” them as Paul, preached the word of the cross unto them (Gal. 1:4; 3:1, 13) by faith, by gospel, the Galatians had been called “into the grace of Christ” (Gal 1:6-8). They were not justified by works of the law, but by faith, in the faith of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:6, 23) Sinners obey the truth, obey the gospel, and obey the faith. (Gal. 5:7)
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”. (Gal.3:26-27)
Men are called, “into grace of Christ” when they are “baptized into Christ”.
You misuse the verse 17 of 2 Cor. 3:17, yes we have freedom, if the spirit of the Lord is in us, but we can not change the commandments of God. God never use us like a robot, we have freedom, to choose evil or obey God.
Christ is God’s lawgiver to His people (Heb. 1:1) and “All authority” (executive, legislative, judicial) was given to Him by the FATHER. (1 Cor. 15:27, Matt. 28:18)
Yes, we have freedom, but we can not change the WILL of Christ. (2 Cor. 4:13)
In ACTS 20:7 they are observing the Lord’s Supper, and we can see that we have scriptural authority to observe the Lord’s Supper “upon the first day of the week”.
Observe, my friend, when God said to the Israelites that “remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy” they understood that they will observe Sabbath every week for it often as it comes, hence when, the congregation in the Corinthian observe “upon the 1st day of the week” it means that every week they observe it, for every week there is 1st day.
But, enough of that, we are no longer and no authority to observe Sabbath day.
Malachi 3: 10 is no longer applicable, my friend for us now. We are now under the new covenant since the Christ was resurrected. The first covenant is the LAW OF MOSES (include tithing), but now we in the GOSPEL OF CHRIST (1 Cor. 16:2 Personal decision: “as God hath prospered” 2 Cor. 9:7 “As he purposeth in his heart”)
If you do what was in the Law of Moses then you are fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4)
IT IS MY PRAYER THAT YOU MAY KNOW THE TRUTH.
I am not telling this to offend you or to hurt you, but remember that I am telling this for you to know what the TRUTH is.
If you have also any objection, that you want to be clear for my letter please write me or tell me, as often as ye write unto me as often I will reply you. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY, THAT YOU GIVE TO ME TO SHARE THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Rom. 1:16).
THANK YOU AND GOOD DAY THERE
In Christian LOVE,
mike
P.S If you want that we will discuss our differences in a public discussion. We will meet in a fair arrangement. We will have a proposition, 1st "how Christian should give?” 2nd " We are saved by grace alone (as you affirm and I will deny it) 3rd "How to observe the LORD'S SUPPER" and when?”. If it is okay unto you, but if you don’t, it just alright.
--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Ron
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Thank you for the answer for my questions.
To: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph
Date: Thursday, 12 March, 2009, 1:25 PM
Hi Mike,
I was going to answer this question until I received your e-mail this evening. It made a great lesson as I used it to demonstrate to my youth group how it's important to listen or read in this case. I can't say that you really read my response to you with the understanding it took to relay answers to your questions.. Your mind is made up that you are correct and are the "truth" to Biblical teachings. I'm here to say you are not the truth and this church does follow Biblical principles however we are not locked in to "this is the only way" as legalists like yourself think every church should behave in "lock step".
We are all saved by "Grace" and the methods we "choose" to worship are Biblical. You sir want to argue secondary issues that only seek to divide worshipers. How dare you say Malachi is not "applicable" and other scriptures which point to "examples" of situations are more important. Ben Franklin didn't like certain scriptures in the Bible and removed them; "his" Bible lost it's meaning because he (Ben Franklin) decided to pick and choose which scriptures he'd follow and which he would not. All scripture is "God inspired" and if it's in my Bible then it has something to offer me somewhere down the road.
I could tell you didn't really look at my tithing explanation as you went over the same things I did, and yes I do know what tithing means and I even explained how the New Testament took tithing to a new level of love from the heart through scripture. Everything I quoted was in scripture however you stated these were my words; no sir these were Biblical words. I always find it interesting where people choose to stop when they want to be correct in what they say so I'll go on in one scripture 2 Cor 3:17 continues by saying, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." Freedom includes tithing from the heart. It's true I could spend every hour talking about tithing like you have suggested I don't do enough of (not knowing me or my church-yet passing judgment).
I'd like to point out that Sunday is the first day of the week and the church tithes on that day. It was redundant for you to point out 1 Cor 16: 1-2 as if this church were not doing this; news flash, we are. 2 Cor 9:7 was redundant as well as I spent great length to attempt to process with you that God does not want us to give begrudgingly but from the heart and cheerfully. You glossed over it sir in an attempt to lecture me for your glory not God's.
You made less of God's church here because we choose to break bread once a month yet I don't think you've truly read the verse you quoted me. Acts 20 verse 7. It reads like this, "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight." Notice this was NOT written as a law. They came together to break bread, Paul spoke because he was LEAVING the next day. I does not say we broke bread the first day of the week every week. You want to argue a secondary issue that only divides people of faith; sir there is no wrong answer to this churches decision to have communion at the beginning of the month verses your decided method to break bread every Sunday. God bless you in this however I will not tolerate you inferring we are "less Christian" because you don't like how we worship. The bottom line is you "feel" you're right without substance other than opinion. Well sir the next Sunday I'm leaving the next day I'll do exactly what "Paul" did-keep in mind it wasn't what Jesus said or made "law"; it's simply your opinion which I respect however I won't criticize like you have chosen to do with me and the church family here.
Our principles are Biblically based however you don't see that because you're wrapped up in arguing about secondary issues. I will remind you that we are all saved by "grace" and grace alone. Nothing we "do" will make us any more or less deserving in God's eyes yet you seem to think otherwise for which I would suggest you truly read your Bible with your heart.
I don't understand your last comment however I take it you don't like the people of my church but you love me. It's hypocritical to suggest you can avoid liking/loving your brothers and sisters in Christ and choose to love only one in His family. Last I looked in the Bible you were not my judge, you are not an elder in this church and you are not God-your opinions do not represent truth in scripture. You have more to understand about God's grace and love than I care to go in to. When the rapture comes Christians who are chosen to go based on what God sees in their hearts will be grateful, loving, humble people who care about all people; because they didn't "pick and choose" who they would minister to they will have followed God's word, "love your neighbor"; a neighbor is anyone.
In answer to your statement like "I" don't know the truth; it's you sir that needs to learn the truth before your on hypocrisy condemns you.
I will pray for you however I won't entertain anymore statements like before; you are no better or no worse than any member of this church I live for. I serve the Lord God almighty, His son Jesus is my savior, I am saved by grace; His grace. The entire church believes this; we are founded and grounded in Christ; you, I'm not so sure of.
God bless,
Ron
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35
www.christiancommunitychurch.com
----- Original Message -----
From: marktumandan@yahoo.com.ph
To: az.dude@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:06 AM
Subject: Thank you for the answer for my questions.
Dear Ron,
Greetings in Peace,
Thank you for the answer for my questions.
Can I ask you again?
*What must one do to be saved? according to your doctrine.
yours,
mike
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